If you’ve been blogging for very long, you probably realize that I just committed blogger blasphemy. You might have already clicked away in fear of your monitor bursting into flames. And while I understand, I still feel compelled to share this message: The Thesis framework for WordPress SUCKS.
Why I Hate Thesis
Even if you don’t realize it, you’ve seen Thesis blogs before. Most of them look exactly the same. Thesis is a framework (basically a theme) that claims to be the best in the universe. Every blogger who uses WordPress thinks they have to use Thesis because it’s the best. I’m here to tell you they’re wrong.
The accolades for Thesis always begin with, “It’s TOTALLY customizable!” That’s true. But the hassle you have to go through to make those customizations isn’t worth it. And that’s why, other than colors and simple changes that are available in the Thesis admin panel, most Thesis blogs look exactly like every other Thesis blog. Because it’s too complicated to do anything else.
There are millions of customizations for Thesis. But to find out how to make most of the changes, you either have to search the Thesis forums, spend time googling, or ask someone. Usually it’s a matter of inserting a prewritten bit of code called a hook, which isn’t that hard. That is, until you need to insert about 40 of them and get them all to work together.
Proof of the Suckage
This is a true story. Last week, I was working on a design for a client using Thesis. We spent about 4 hours trying to make what should have been small changes to the sidebar. As is usually the case when I work with Thesis, I was ready to have a stroke. Nonstop googling to figure out exactly which hooks to use, making sure they didn’t conflict with any other code, getting it to look the way she wanted….
I told the client I was taking a 30-minute mental health break. In that half hour, I proceeded to load Weaver II Pro on a test domain, rebuild her blog exactly the way it looked on Thesis, and fix the sidebar issue. When I showed her, she was blown away. She requested (and got) a refund for Thesis and is now rocking the Weaver theme.
Another true story: One of my friends is an internet marketer. He uses Thesis to build most of his sites. I was telling him about the situation above, and he decided to try out Weaver. Once he figured out the admin panel and where all the options were, he had to admit that it’s much faster and easier than working with Thesis. I don’t know that he’ll convert completely, but I think he’s becoming a fan.
The Bottom Line
For someone who is new to blogging (or new to WordPress), Thesis is an absolute nightmare. The Thesis website brags,
Not a coder? Not a problem. The Thesis option panels allow you to command your site with ease, while Thesis does all of the heavy lifting behind the scenes.
But unless you have an understanding of coding, you can’t make your site look much different than the rest. Fine for cookie cutter sites, but not for creating something that’s uniquely yours.
It is unnecessarily difficult to customize the look of your blog using Thesis (for most people). Some can use it with no trouble, but I design websites for a living and still find it more work than I’m willing to put in. I’ve heard many people say they felt stupid when they couldn’t figure it out. Why? Because the Thesis website makes using the framework sound much easier than it actually is.
If you’re a new blogger, don’t buy into the hype. (And if you’re a seasoned blogger, don’t be afraid to admit that Thesis isn’t as easy as it could be.) I love Weaver II Pro, but that doesn’t mean you have to use it. Choose a theme that does what you want and is easy to work with - that’s the most important thing you can do for your blog.
Have you ever used Thesis? What did you think of it? Do you totally agree/disagree with me?
Most people that don't have the skills to develop a custom WordPress website (or a custom website for that matter) don't value Thesis. The reality is, 1.8 (and soon to be 2.0) still has a slight speed advantage over the Genesis Framework. It can also be used to create custom themes much quicker than just about anything else out there. The catch is, you have to actually know what you are doing. I'm sure a wheel was utterly useless to a caveman, but once he stood upright and learned how to use that wheel to toil the land and grow crops, he eventually saw the value. The same can be said about Thesis. ;P
I can agree with you to a point. However, in working primarily with bloggers, I find that they don't want to take the time to learn all the ins and outs of Thesis, and they don't want to pay someone every time they need to make a small tweak. For that reason, I would much rather build on the Genesis framework or even Twenty Ten - that way they can learn to do things themselves without feeling so overwhelmed. A slight speed advantage can be worth it in some cases, but not for most people that I work with. Thanks for stopping by to share your thoughts!
I agree with you Andrea….I used thesis for 2 sites:
foxyinvestor[dot]com and richardtremblay[dot]com/wordpress
In both cases i was asked by the client to customize it fully.
And to add to it the last client richard tremblay asked me for bilingual supportive theme.
We did it initially but found it to be a major problem while switching languages.
Ultimately as the client wanted it badly to be custom thesis and not any other theme we had to recode the whole header section to allow for the bilingual support.
Yes i know many thesis lovers would come in defence.
But for lame changes which could have saved us lot of time in other themes or a custom theme from scratch we had to spend more time.
Also it is not friendly with many ecommerce plugins like woocommerce, jigoshop etc.
I had to use wp-ecommerce for that case.
Having said all this i can still use various load optimizer tools to make my site very fast.
We can use yoast SEO for better SEO.
I can have website grader test my coding for seo friendliness.
Lastly i can create my own theme options quickly for easiness to maintain and manage content of header, footer and colors of css which is time taking ofcourse and most users don’t need it. For very few we can use thematic and genesis or headspace.
And added to all this our company has done more than 1500 wordpress sites till date and i being closely involved with this CMS can definitely say YES thesis really sucks..
Its a NO-NO for a developer and i personally never recommend it for clients.
I’m really glad to hear another designer/developer report the same kind of issues that I had. I am contracting with a developer who works solely with Thesis; that way I don’t have to turn away clients who insist on using. However, I usually let them know how I feel about it.
Between MaxCDN, gzip on my servers, and well-coded themes, all of my sites have +/- 1-second page load times. Many of them have built in SEO options just like Thesis. I see no reason why it should be the default theme when it’s so difficult to work with.
Thank you so much for sharing, Andrea. I had suspicions when I studied the Thesis framework, and you confirmed what I was thinking.
If you think Thesis v1.xx was obtuse, wait until you get a gander at 2.0, which is now out. If you can see the oceans draining, that's major suckage, and that's what Thesis 2.0 is doing right now. I know. I'm trying to modify a 1.xx site to 2.0. It won't even indent blockquotes in existing posts that exist in the wp editor. As well,
1) There is no instruction manual. He just dropped it. Real Soon Now seems to be when a manual will be coming out - sort of like Thesis 2.0 since 2009.
Meh, I was going to do a list, but it's not worth my time.
I've been on pins and needles waiting for someone to tell me if 2.0 was the answer to all life's problems…. Not that I expected any better! Thanks for the update - I'm glad to know I don't have to retract my opinion.
I agree that Thesis sucks and it can’t beat Genesis. I will go for Studiopress for all of my websites’ designs.
I use Genesis more and more…. It’s an amazing value for the money! I just wish StudioPress would make certain things uniform across all themes, like setting the header. Sometimes I have to replace the logo image; other times I have to use Appearance > Header. It drives me crazy trying to remember little differences like that across various child themes.
I was a former Thesis addicted but since Thesis 2.0 was released I made the switch. Now for my blog I’ve developed a custom theme based on Twitter Bootstrap and for other projects I use Genesis.
Oooh, I’d be really interested to hear more about the theme based on Bootstrap! I’ve been experimenting with it a little here and there. I have heard very few people say good things about Thesis 2.0. Haven’t bothered to look at it myself, but when I look at the screenshots it seems they’ve made things even more complicated in an effort to simplify.
I really don’t understand what thesis has to offer? If you say it to a “pro thesis” person, they will say you need to be a developer to understand….well I am a developer. I work for very large companies and have got many to use wordpress. BUT for the life of me I don’t understand , as a developer, why would I want to use thesis, and learn all the custom hooks and the messy control panel, instead of just starting with a blank theme, and coding what I want. WordPress has a great template system, great docs, and everything you can do with a hook you can do in wordpress’s theme/function files, in less time without the need to learn the hooks thesis uses. I really don’t see a reason for any of these “frameworks” really. I code around 3-4 sites a week, all from scratch , many with custom plugins, all with custom from scratch ( blank) themes, I just don’t get the need for thesis? I gave the benifit of the doubt and took a look at a bunch of the “hooks”…before the content….why not at the top of the page file? before the widgets…once again, why not the top of the sidebar….the cool menu tool…doesn’t wordpress have this built in? yes , yes it does…so why learn all this bs , when its easier without. Ive built massive wordpress sites, commercial plugins ( mowpop for example) everyday blogs, large ecommerce wordpress sites, etc. And have never had an issue using my functions file, and editing the theme I created for the client. And know exactly where everything is, because I put it there.
anyone ? please explain to me what thesis offers that stock wordpress and a blank theme doesn’t offer?
Evan! I couldn’t agree more. I’ve tried Thesis and I’ve tried Genesis. I’ve found no benefit to using either of these. It’s much easier to start from scratch to build a theme that’s exactly to my likings and fits the clients needs. WordPress is amazing! You don’t need any of these “frameworks” to customize WordPress.
I’ll disagree slightly just because I really like Genesis. But overall I agree - there’s plenty you can do with WordPress without a framework.
“plenty” ? what can you do with Genesis, That stock WordPress cannot do? tell me what it is, and ill record my screen making it work faster than genesis can I guarantee it
It’s not always about “faster” - I like Genesis because it’s well supported and my clients don’t end up dependent on me for updates. If your methods work for you and your clients, that’s what matters.
I have years and years of experience doing web development, including PHP and MySQL programming. I am no novice. Still, I have tried to use Thesis to save me TIME and to avoid doing custom PHP programming. My opinion right now is that Thesis SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS. What a waste of money, and worse, my precious time. The most simple things don’t work as advertised. The hype about Thesis, and I suspect also their product Premise, is exaggerated if not outright false. They do a great job marketing, but unfortunately their coding sucks big time. Thanks for giving me some place to vent. I’m sick of Thesis.
Agree with you 100%, except Premise is made by Studiopress (who makes Genesis). Genesis is actually my framework of choice lately!